‘Talks are never going to succeed if India and Pakistan stick to the bilateral line’

Pakistan has exhibited a strong stance on Kashmir: Ashraf Sehrai

·         Ideological differences about Kashmir issue separated us from Jamaat

·         Kashmir has to be solved according to wish and aspiration of people Kashmir

·         Geelani not an ordinary person and needs no introduction

·         It is false notion that some influential people introduced Geelani to masses in Srinagar

·         2010 was a collective failure

·         Super powers also gave up their pristine so would India

·         India now has a fascist form of government in shape of Modi

·         Participation of Kashmiris must as Kashmiris are the primary party to the dispute

·         BJP or Modi cannot impose their will on Kashmiris

·         Always ready for result-oriented and Kashmir-oriented dialogue

·         Succeeding Geelani is Gunah-e-Be’ lazath

What Plato was to Socrates, Mohammad Ashraf Sehrai is to Syed Ali Geelani in many ways. Geelani is Sehrai's mentor. In turn, Sehrai has been steadfast in his loyalty to his senior. He has been with Geelani through thick and thin for 56 years of struggle against India in Jammu and Kashmir. In an interaction with Rising Kashmir’s Daanish Bin Nabi, Ashraf Sehrai tracks down the major events of Tehreek-e-Hurriyat from the time Geelani, he and others left Jamaat. Sehrai also talks about the failure of the 2010 mass uprising, and the Modi government. Excerpts

You including Geelani parted from Jamaat in early 2000s. Do you think separating from Jamaat was worth?

Parting from Jamaat-i-Islami was always a difficult decision to make. But there are times when one has to take hard steps in one’s life. Separating from them (Jamaat) was one such step. It was due to ideological difference with them that we parted and need of the hour which we had to take for the sake of Kashmir cause. There is also a wrong notion among many people that Geelani parted away from Jamaat because they did not made him Emir of the party which is totally baseless. Differences on Kashmir issue, was the fundamental cause which separated us from Jamaat. And parting from them was a right step in this regard. Right from 1998 to 2004, the Jamaat had started to change its tune on Kashmir issue and started to only focus on Islamic upliftment of Kashmir which in my and Geelani Sahab’s assessment was not going to do any good for the struggle of Kashmir cause. We never regretted parting from Jamaat. Same this happened when All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC) got divided, that time also we had ideological difference with the other members of Hurriyat over question of proxy candidate in election. Ideology, for any cause is important.

Why you rejected Musharaff’s four-point formula? The other Hurriyat was on board for Musharaff?

Yes, we opposed it tooth and nail. His four-points were not in lieu with the Kashmir martyrs. We have sacrificed so much for the noble cause of Kashmir that we will never let anyone to play with the sentiments of people here. I am asking you, have we sacrificed our youth for any out of box solution on Kashmir? How can an ideological person or an ideological party give up on it principled stand. Our stand is clear that is Kashmir has to be solved according to wish and aspiration of people of Jammu and Kashmir. Right to self-determination is the apt word which I should use here. It’s mine, my leader’s (Geelani) and my party’s stand will never give on our principled stand. And no out of box solution formula is acceptable to us. I will strive for my right (right to self determination) till I die.

Is it true that some influential people introduced Geelani to the masses in Srinagar?

One should always keep this thing in mind that he is Geelani and not an ordinary person. He needs no introduction anywhere. It is false notion that some influential people introduced him to the masses in Srinagar. Yes some may have helped us in organising our rallies but it’s a false notion that someone introduced Geelani to the masses here. He was already well known in Srinagar as well. He has always addressed the ijtimas (gatherings) of Jamaat in Srinagar. People already knew him here through these ijtimas. He has also spent a good time of his early life in Srinagar when Jamaat gave him the accommodation in Bulbulbagh, Srinagar. Jamaat’s Shobi Siyasat (Political wing) was already under Geelani Sahab. He visited Srinagar to address these ijtimas of Jamaat so how can anyone say that he was introduced in Srinagar by some influential person.

Why the agitation of 2008 and 2010 failed?

Let me put this on record that in 2008 the leadership of Kashmir did not fail. The Amarnath Land was finally given back to the people of Kashmir, meaning the leadership succeeded in 2008. Now allow me to explain 2010 mass uprising briefly. There were some strategic mistakes on part of leadership like we gave long strike calls which disillusioned certain sections of Kashmir. Even the freedom loving people started to question the central leadership saying for how long we have to go for strikes. Then India exploited it. We have credible reports that the Indian agencies gave money to the sumo and auto-rickshaw drivers. They even said to them we will provide you more money if your vehicles get damaged due to stone pelting. It was a tactic of India to break the long movement of people. By this time the entire leadership was also put behind bars apart from Geelani Sahab who was under continuous house arrest. On top of it people also started to say what about school going children. Then we also had to keep the poor section of the society in mind. I must say that 2010 was a collective failure for Kashmir. Both the people of Kashmir and the leadership are responsible for failure of 2010 mass uprising, having said that, we must never forget the sacrifices made by the Kashmiris especially youth in 2010. I have high regards and hope from the youth of Kashmir.

But Kashmiris achieved nothing from 2010 agitation?

It is a continuous struggle. If anyone thinks that we can achieve our goal in one go then he is living in a fool’s paradise. We should also keep in mind that we fighting a military which is far greater in number. India at present is politically, militarily and economically strong and also has a good image internationally because of her corporate media. But we should also keep in mind that every rising sun has to set on day. Romans and Persians—the super powers of the world also had to give up its pristine. So will India one day.

How do you view BJP-led government?

It’s a dream come true for Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) which they saw in 1927 that was to be in power. No matter how Modi tries to lure Indians and shows them development and democracy but practically it’s a fascist system of government in India now. It’s the trait of a fascist type that they first introduce a guy to the masses and then provide him every sort of propaganda machinery for portraying him a god-like figure. This fascist government is giving people a notion to people that whatever Modi does is right and rest everyone is wrong. That’s what Modi and BJP is doing now.

What impact does the cancelation of recent talks between NSAs of India and Pakistan have on Kashmir?

All the talks and dialogue from 1947 till now between India and Pakistan have never been result-oriented apart from few negotiations that were successful like when one country captured land of the other country, as we have seen in various wars between the two countries. As far as the Kashmir issue is concerned talks between the two countries were never successful. When India lost to China in 1962 that following year under pressure – India – got ready for a dialogue on Kashmir with Pakistan. Talks followed, between Swaran Singh and Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and went on for six months but again nothing was achieved. Till Kashmiris are not included in dialogue in a proper way nothing will come out of these talks. If they (Indo-Pak) try to solve it bilaterally these talks are never going to be successful. Third party intervention for the talks are must, be it United Nations or any third neutral country. Participation of Kashmiris is also must as Kashmiris are the primary party to the dispute.

But Sushma Swaraj candidly said that India is against third party intervention?

Tell me does it mean we should give up on our stand and struggle. That’s what we have been struggling for. How can BJP or Modi or his colleagues impose their will on Kashmiris? It will be never acceptable to the people of Kashmir. Azad Kashmir, Gilgit Baltistan, Leh, Jammu and Kashmir is neither part of Pakistan nor India and both must accept it.

How has Pakistan played its role in this recent talk’s fiasco?

It’s for the first time in recent history that Pakistan has taken a strong stance on Kashmir. We appreciate their support of our struggle. Pakistan can never give up on their historical stand of Kashmir. They have a consensus on Kashmir dispute now.

Do you want talks to resume between India and Pakistan?

Yes, why not. We are always ready for result-oriented and Kashmir oriented dialogue and were wishes and aspirations of Kashmiris are taken into consideration. India can never ignore Kashmiri issue. India has to address the issue sooner the better for a viable solution of Kashmir.

Are you the successor of Syed Ali Geelani?

For me it’s a Gunah-e-Be’ lazath (Sin without a benefit). I can never be his successor. No one among us can fill his gap such is his stature. I have even said to Geelani Sahab that I am never going even to try his shoes. The successor decision will be taken by the party and not by any individual.